Forum suggestion: Privacy / InfoSec / Civil Liberties

[dahamsta]

Just looking for feedback on a forum for the discussion of privacy, personal infosec, civil liberties, crypto, etc; under the Activism category. Ordinarily, the title would be Privacy/Security, but this interferes with the Security forum in Technology a little. Suggestions and comments on a board name are welcome.

I believe I suggested this before a year or so ago and was shot down, but given the gross civil liberties violations in the US and the UK, and the violations McDowell wants to perform here, I think it's incumbent upon us to try and organise ourselves.

One of the reasons I'm doing this now is because of prompting by Karlin Lillington, who is very seriously concerned with current affairs in this area, and has suggested the (re)creation of an Irish chapter of the EFF. I'm attaching an email I received from Karlin outlining some of these issues, her permission to republish it is in-line. Also below is an example of the type of stuff that I would be posting for discussion.

I think a board here is a good way to get an evaluation process started. If that doesn't work, I'll try a mailing list. I might set one up anyway.

Thanks
adam

Hi Adam and David--

Hope you guys are doing well and keeping the insurrections alive on the
discussion boards! We need all we can get -- which is why I'm tossing out an
idea to you, to see what you think as you'd be more intimately familiar with
the activist side of the Irish net world.

Given McDowell's proposed data retention bill, and EU/Irish copyright
issues, and cybercrime elemnts of the criminal justice bill, and the
increasingly uncertain position of encryption protections in the ecommerce
bill, and, of course, EU moves generally on the data retention and
surveillance front, I am really hoping there might be a move to reinstate
the long-defunct Irish branch of the Electronic Frontier Foundation and/or
to create an Irish cyber rights group. The Irish Council for Civil Liberties
only has a single convener on these issues, though they try hard, and they
don't cover them at all on their website. I'm been trying to raise awareness
on the need for such a group for at least four years now (I can't tell you
how many talks I've given and columns written on this issue -- clearly no
one listens to me! [waah!]). I think launching a branch of EFF would give
instant credibility as well as offer some resources to whoever might take up
this challenge.

I've posted a related item on the blog today:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0103966/2003/01/06.html#a1074

And I've also been piecing together a privacy data centre and story archive:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0103966/sto...taPrivacy.html

I've been in touch with EFF in San Francisco; their main activist is off at
the moment but would be eager, I think, to talk with anyone interested in
such a plan. It would operate in much the same way as IOffline and I know
there'd be plenty of capable hands out there (I am thinking in terms of the
Linux crowd, who are often well networked, and Ireland Offline and the
various boards participants, and students and so forth. Lots of bright
committed people who understand the issues). I know Bernie Goldbach (journo
with Examiner) would be interested in some involvement. I'm in a trickier
position with the Times but I can give space to the issues and am willing to
talk to groups or on panels or whatever. I am just very, very seriously
worried that there are NO voices, NO lobby groups, NO pressure on the
media/industry/government/citizens to address these issues, even as the Dail
starts to secretively consider laws in this area. And certainly, NO group
keeping an eye on MPs and their voting habits on cyber issues. I find it
hard to write straightforward stories on these issues as there's no one to
speak to the issues except the ICLU.

While I don't know if this would be your personal cup of tea, would you
consider reposting this to relevant places (cut as desired) or pushing it
out into some of the tech forums for discussion? I'm happy to arrange
connections for interested parties if that's useful. I will likely push the
issue in my column for Friday and will ask anyone interested to email me --
though god knows if I'll get any response. I really think the topic needs
airing and discussion out in the proper geek forums, where people care about
same.

Regards --

Karlin

RFID tags: Big Brother in small packages

Could we be constantly tracked through our clothes, shoes or even our cash in the future?

I'm not talking about having a microchip surgically implanted beneath your skin, which is what Applied Digital Systems of Palm Beach, Fla., would like to do. Nor am I talking about John Poindexter's creepy Total Information Awareness spy-veillance system, which I wrote about last week.

Instead, in the future, we could be tracked because we'll be wearing, eating and carrying objects that are carefully designed to do so.

The generic name for this technology is RFID, which stands for radio frequency identification. RFID tags are miniscule microchips, which already have shrunk to half the size of a grain of sand. They listen for a radio query and respond by transmitting their unique ID code. Most RFID tags have no batteries: They use the power from the initial radio signal to transmit their response.

You should become familiar with RFID technology because you'll be hearing much more about it soon. Retailers adore the concept, and CNET News.com's own Alorie Gilbert wrote last week about how Wal-Mart and the U.K.-based grocery chain Tesco are starting to install "smart shelves" with networked RFID readers. In what will become the largest test of the technology, consumer goods giant Gillette recently said it would purchase 500 million RFID tags from Alien Technology of Morgan Hill, Calif.

[...]

[vinnyfitz]

me supports this service product or campaign

[JohnK]

Privacy has always been a concern of mine so I would definitely support this.

[DeVore]

I've been in touch with EFF in San Francisco; their main activist is off at
the moment but would be eager, I think, to talk with anyone interested in
such a plan.

Heheh and so the wheel turns...

Considering Antoin O'L and I set up the (ill-fated) EFI waaaaaaaay back when (seems like a lifetime ago) I dont think I could take the Karma backlash of refusing this request

Oh, and its nice to see Karlin reads the Boards...

DeV.

[Typedef]

Needless to say, any and all moves to inhibit the data retention bill need to be supported and given the gravitas they deserve.

For me, privacy is a big issue, I don't like the idea of my government or 'any' government thinking itself so important and so endowed with the sceptre of elucidation * that it can in an quasi-Stalinist, neo-Orwellian style snoop on the private information of others.

The paranoid in me says that the government will snoop the information 'anyway', but keeping the legal remit from the big brother authoritarian types is one way the little guy can be protected from over intrusive government scrutinisation of a citizens privacy.

In short groupings dedicated to keeping the little guy's information private are one of the only check points the ordinary people have to protect themselves from a snooping nanny state on steroids.

Edit:
The data retention bill seems born of a righteously indignant government, a government that believes itself so totally fit to govern that it can do no wrong, make no mistakes and is therefore unable to misuse information it 'retains'.

For me, I simply take issue, with the State keeping tabs on me, as if I were a criminal, when in fact, I have comitted no crime, been charged with no offence and deserve no treatment conducive with being a criminal.

Ok, no more ranting.
*I'd just like to point out : 'certain' people around here are in fact clearly.... quite mad...

[DeVore]

Illucidation?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=illucidation

Anyway, it would appear Typie supports this product and/or service.

DeV.

[ecksor]

Originally posted by dahamsta
Just looking for feedback on a forum for the discussion of privacy, personal infosec, civil liberties, crypto, etc; under the Activism category. Ordinarily, the title would be Privacy/Security, but this interferes with the Security forum in Technology a little. Suggestions and comments on a board name are welcome.

As far as I'm concerned, all of this sort of discussion is welcome on the existing security forum. (I covered that in the FAQ I think ... )

[spod]

EFI seems to semi exist still and is hosted in connect.

It might be worth seeing if some of the old EFI people want to get involved, give pointers etc.

Also, whilst I agree with ecksor that discussion about this is more then welcome on the Security board, it is a slightly different sphere and to me it sounds like they're planning on starting some sort of campaign ala stand etc.

[dahamsta]

As far as I'm concerned, all of this sort of discussion is welcome on the existing security forum.

I understand that ecksor, and I appreciate it, but I think that Security's position in Technology would tend to preclude discussion of the political and social aspects of the issues that we would be posting on. That's to say it's where it is rather than who's running it would cause the problem. I have the same problem with the Politics board: I sometimes don't bother posting topics there, because I think it's quite likely the thread will fizzle out prematurely. I think creating a separate board in Activism is the answer: People will see "Activism" in the crumb trail and be able to identify the context. That said, I would hope that the mods of both forums would work together to keep discussions on-topic, in much the same way topics get moved back and forth between IrelandOffline and Nets/Comms.

Cheers,
adam

[DeVore]

Ok, I need to clarify something.

I thought this was for an IOFFL style group to bring political pressure to bear for privacy/civil liberties?

Is such a group forming ala IOFFL or MIJAG or is this a discussion group in general for the public to mull such topics over?

DeV.

[ecksor]

Moving the current forum out of technology might introduce the same problem of people not wanting to post their virus (or whatever) questions under a non-tech forum, but I'd rather either keep everything under one forum that people didn't feel inhibited from posting to. Would a name change help? You proposed a privacy forum before at http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...threadid=33745

With the current situation of two boards, it could clearly be separated into one board dealing with purely technology related topics and another dealing with implications-of-technology, laws-which-affect-our-freedom/privacy, what-can-we-do-about-it etc. (Even at that, some infosec topics might be a bit ambiguous). I'm not sure how clear this will be from the naming of the boards though.

On a much more pedantic note, I think that privacy is being used as a catchall term for 'privacy and/or anonymity' ?

[vinnyfitz]

what about :
Electronic privacy campaign
Digital privacy campaign
Snoop watch
Electronic Freedom
Big brother

or something......

Get some better ideas together and have a poll to come up with one name for both the board and the campaign itself.

[Typedef]

Why not just call it boards-eff or similar.

Big Brother would be great, but you'd get a tidal wave of muppets saying things like 'bring back goldie'

A sentiment I happen to agree with, but, totally irrelevant to electronic privacy.

How about : Electronic Privacy, for a forum title?

[dahamsta]

Is such a group forming ala IOFFL or MIJAG or is this a discussion group in general for the public to mull such topics over?

It will be both. The latter will be used to guage interest and supporters for the former. I'll probably also set up a mailing list, so if both the forum and the mailing list die, they can be laid to rest and we can pretend this never happened; if one succeeds, we'll concentrate on that for communications and work towards creating an entity; if both succeed, we'll all go "yaaay!" and slap ourselves on the back for a job well done.

If we really need to give ourselves a name for the moment, I like vinnyfitz's suggestions, particularly "Electronic Freedom". That's what we'd be about, and with the permission of the EFF, we would eventually become "Electronic Freedom Foundation (Ireland)".

adam

[ecksor]

That sounds cool.

This brings me back to the old problem though, how the hell do we get people who want to post about non-techy security topics to post on the security board?